The U.S. has one of the highest per capita consumption of plastics in the world, driven principally by packaging.
Enter a Swedish inventor Åke Rosén with Biodolomer, an alternative that looks and acts like plastic, but is renewable, biodegradable, compostable, convertible to renewable energy, gives off virtually no CO2 emissions, and does not generate microplastics.
Too good to be true?
Join Robin and Shelley with brand strategist Kristoffer Reiter, Principal of Cohesive Whole and Nils Andersson from Gaia Biomaterials (home for Biodolomer) as they reveal breakthrough advances in bioengineering and the potential end of plastics as we know them.
This wide-ranging conversation is inspiring about how ingenuity and imagination of applied science can change the world for the better.
For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
The U.S. has one of the highest per capita consumption of plastics in the world, driven principally by packaging.
Enter a Swedish inventor Åke Rosén with Biodolomer, an alternative that looks and acts like plastic, but is renewable, biodegradable, compostable, convertible to renewable energy, gives off virtually no CO2 emissions, and does not generate microplastics.
Too good to be true?
Join Robin and Shelley with brand strategist Kristoffer Reiter, Principal of Cohesive Whole and Nils Andersson from Gaia Biomaterials (home for Biodolomer) as they reveal breakthrough advances in bioengineering and the potential end of plastics as we know them.
This wide-ranging conversation is inspiring about how ingenuity and imagination of applied science can change the world for the better.
For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
Like when you take a stand for the environment like this, everything changes. You stand for something valuable for the customer. And look at Patagonia. They were untouchable from the competition now and completely favorable. They changed an industry and if you look at their growth over the last five years, it's been explosive and as a brand, I would say this will accomplish any brand that dared to take a stand for this, Because not only will it get you the smart customer back, you will also get the customer from every competition you have.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody and thanks for joining our weekly podcast. I'm Robin Lewis, founder and CEO of the Robin Report, and along with my podcast partner, shelly Koham, and today we welcome you. And I'm really kind of excited today because we are taking a break from our usual kind of analytics exercises and data science, and today we have a very special guest who specializes in the latest scientific materials. And if we are thinking, what does that have to do with retail or brands? Well, I'm here to tell you that you do not want to miss one of the most interesting conversations about the future of sustainability, that word that we keep hearing about over and over, and of course, this impacts everyone and really begins to impact the big, big retail industry.
Speaker 2:So it's my honor to introduce you to Christoph Rader, who is the principal of KP Ecological, and Nils Anderson represent Gaia biomaterials I probably didn't get that Gaia right, but whatever which is a company that has a solution for the plastic waste problem in the world, which all of my listeners know about very, very well. So not a bad introduction. So welcome, christoph, christopher.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having us today. It's great to be here with you, Robin and Shelly.
Speaker 4:Yeah, great to be here today. I'm talking about what I'm very passionate about. Shelly, would you relate to the material advancements from the Gaia perspective?
Speaker 3:Excellent. Well, it's great to have you both on and you know what. Let's start by first explaining Nils. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about the company Gaia Biomaterials and Robin mentioned. The goal was really to save the earth and that's kind of a large goal. Let's hear more about that aspect. Yeah, sure, absolutely.
Speaker 4:Well, the company started in around 2012. And it started out as a very small R&D entity where you looked at well, what to do with new materials, and it was all about developing a pragmatic solution to the plastic waste problem in the world, which has started to gain traction even then, and the founder of Gaia, a man named Oki Hosean. He has previously worked for companies as Tetra Pak, as technical advisor to one of the donors, hans Lowsing, but he's also started a number of companies within packaging and material development himself, so he had a very good background for doing this, and in 2013, he filed a patent for what is biodolomer, and that patent is registered in well in the US, for one in France and Germany and Sweden, of course, in Canada. And ever since 2015, we've had commercial production with the current CEO as a partner, and we have come to a point where we believe that we're ready to take the next step and go international in the true way.
Speaker 3:That's great, and I should have mentioned where's the company based. So you're joining us all the way from Sweden, which is quite a treat for our listeners, yeah yeah, yeah, we forgot to do that.
Speaker 2:So, Niels, based on the report that I read, you are working on biodolomer applications, right, which will and can impact the fashion industry by replacing standard plastics, you know like for packaging, bubble wrap, shopping bags, trays, cups, lids, whatever, toys, etc. So tell us about this process and you may start by explaining what biodolomer application means.
Speaker 4:Sure, absolutely. What Biodolomar is at its most basic level is a dropping compound that can replace standard plastics in about 8% of all applications. That's suitable for Biodolomar being a biodegradable, compostable material, single-use plastics, seldom-use or limited lifespan products. You can use it for a lot of different applications. You mentioned packaging, carrier bags, bubble wrap, but you can also use it for trays and cups and lids, and food packaging, horticultural applications and toothbrushes. For horticultural applications, for example, you have to add a benefit of if you plant the entire pot into the ground, you can leave it there. The ingredients in Biodolomar will eventually decompose and then it will nourish the earth. You have the calcium carbonate, of course, but you also have a fair amount of different minerals as well, which will actually help the soil.
Speaker 3:Wow, that is really interesting. I know that you're planning on entering the US market, which is probably one of the highest per capita consumptions of plastics in the world, which means that that's a huge market potential for new materials such as Biodolomar.
Speaker 4:I mean, it's a huge opportunity, absolutely you're absolutely correct, shal, when it comes to the US market. We have followed the US market for some time and we have tracked the development. We have looked at the things that we found interesting, and that's the fact that the US started to address the problem with plastics in a quite serious way. The most notable evidence of that, I would say, is the fact that President Biden, in September 2022, signed the executive order 14081, or 14081. I'm not sure how to pronounce that exactly, but in the roadmap for advancing the field of biotechnology in the US, there is a chapter referring to a bold goal about replacing 90% of all the polymers used in the US within 20 years for biobased alternatives.
Speaker 4:Given the fact that it's an executive order and you know this much better than I do there is no actual financing attached to it, so it's more of pointing out the direction of what to expect onwards, and we find this very interesting in so far that it gives an instance If you're an American city or a state, or a county for that matter. It gives you a direction to what to aim for, and we know for certain that some of the citizen states in the US have already taken action in terms of introducing legislation that limits the use of plastics at least some plastics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think yeah, once you get involved with the government, then of course, it's just craziness in this country today, which is a whole other discussion. But yeah, I mean, if you can go after the private enterprises and the cities and states, you probably have more success. Now the EPA in the US market is really trying to move to higher levels of recycling, using Europe, by the way, as a high benchmark. But you know, trying to get process and practice in place in the US market to be anywhere near the European levels is going to be a tremendous burden. The right thing to do, but difficult to execute based on them. Well, simply, the physical size and infrastructure of the US markets should make it tough.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, you're spot on there. To increase the plastic recycling in the US to European levels would take an enormous effort in terms of both money and time. I mean, the US is I mean, compared to Europe, it's a huge country. I mean having the same sort of collection as we have in Europe and starting from, I wouldn't say scratch.
Speaker 4:There is, of course, collection in the US as well, but it hasn't evolved as far as in Europe right now, and that's something that favors a solution like a biodolamer, insofar that we have a solution that's quite ready for being used in the market today without having to build infrastructure around it. And we're looking at the recycling rate in the US. I read the last EPA report on that, or I would say an excerpt of the last EPA report, and that came in 2018. And when you deduct the export of plastic waste, which was actually calculated as a recycling effort, when you look at the actual recycling in the US, it's around four and a half to five percent of all the plastic put into the US market. So, given that there should be a place for biodegradable and compostable materials such as biodolamer, yeah, I mean gosh.
Speaker 3:Those numbers are so low in terms of US recycling. And hopefully we will catch up to European markets, but certainly having a solution for brands and retailers that they can easily implement and roll out is great. So let's talk about why sustainable materials should be interesting for brands and materials, and maybe, christopher, you can take this one.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think for many brands in North America that term sustainability is still a bit of an untapped potential to say. Different brands have gone in different ways, of course, but most of the time it turned into a little bit of a greenifying PR ambition, focusing on reusing or recycling or environmental friendly production methods. And agreeable, all ambitions are, of course, good, but at the same time we know that none of these methods are making enough of an impact to change the tide. So right now, I would say and sorry for being bold we're giving our customers the false perception of what is good for the environment versus not. We promise the customer that we are doing the best we can by replacing plastic with reusable bags, but these solutions are, quite frankly, even worse than a traditional plastic bag, because it takes about 1,000 years to break down a reusable bag. That's 12 generations in one family.
Speaker 3:That's crazy, oh my God.
Speaker 1:Right. So the microplastic from the bag absorbed then toxins in the ground and continued to pollute the environment long after it's gone, because, like you saw the other week, microplastic is found in breath, smells and even in clouds. So I think what we tell our customers are just not good enough for a long term solution and I think for brand it's a matter of time to realize that the customer will know it shortly, and when they do, the brands are the ones that will look both foolish and a little bit ignorant, and an image that I believe none of us would like to have.
Speaker 2:Well, once again, everything reverts back to the consumer Really drives everything as it should be. So brand owners, retailers and so forth, do you think that they're in lockstep with the consumer and you think they're ready to make huge investments in time and money in these types of technologies?
Speaker 1:I some. And let's turn it around and say this, for example, sustainability is about embracing innovation and as brands, we want to innovate, and I think brands should search for solutions for how we can make a substantial impact on our future as brands. Just the way we search to make the best t-shirt, the best underwear or the best Stanley Cup. We all chase that one story that we portray our ambition as a brand, and that's what's worth investing in the brand message about how and why we're different. Like when you take a stand for the environment like this, everything changes. You stand for something valuable for the customer. And look at Patagonia. They were untouchable from the competition now and completely favorable. They changed an industry and if you look at their growth over the last five years, it's been explosive and as a brand, I would say this will accomplish any brand that dare to take a stand for this, because not only will it get you the smart customer back, you will also get the customer from every competition you have.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:It's true, and listen, let me just say one of the greatest messages that Patagonia ever did was giving the company back to the earth.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 3:I mean, honestly, that was just an amazing time and I applaud them and they're very in step with their consumer for sure. So you know. But I have to say you know, when we look at consumers, especially in the US market, we know that they claim to prioritize sustainability when choosing products. So you'll send all these surveys out and they'll come back and say oh yes, I want sustainable, I want sustainable. But then when we look at the actual data, what's happening is they're not really willing to pay a premium for more sustainable products. We see that all the time. So you know it's an interesting position because retailers and brands, typically they actually have to spend more money to create or develop a market in more sustainable ways. So obviously the price has to go up and with product development, you know this adds to the cost of goods and ultimately, you know, the consumer does end up paying more. So I guess you know you got to put your money where your mouth is. I don't know. The consumers are a little, saying one thing, doing another.
Speaker 1:That's a conundrum.
Speaker 1:Yeah, christopher, Of course sustainability shouldn't cost more, but in the beginning it's always a numbers game, right True To match prices. For a traditional solution, the volume always needs to be there. That's how it do. But look, for example, at Adidas that developed this sneaker from Ocean Plastic. It's one of their great sellers right now, and just that one product took it somewhere. But let's go back and look at the Pett bottle, which was originally priced around four USD when it was introduced. It was the one most expensive plastic round, and nowadays Pett bottles is among the cheapest plastics available. So I would say we can expect the same development for raw materials and once the production volume starts to increase. But I want to be bold again and to be very frank. At the end of the day, it's not a question of cost anymore. It's a matter of survival for both brands.
Speaker 2:Yes, Excellent point, but you've got to gather the masses out there to understand this. I think it's beginning In the circular economy, as it's called, where so many brands are really striving to become a part of the closed loop system. What happens with a biodolomer at the end of life? Does it end up in a landfill, compost, incineration, litter and recycling?
Speaker 4:Actually it can end up in either of those and it performs very well, no matter where it ends up. If you start with landfill, which I've come to understand is the most common way to dispose of waste in the US, if you take biodolomer, there are four main factors that decide the rate of biodegradation and compostability. That's UV light, for example, first of all. Then you have heat, then you have bacteria that munch away on the materials and then you have oxygen, which kind of makes the material slightly brittle. Either one of these four components works independently, so you don't need all four of them. If you have all four of them, then you have the sweet spot for biodegradation. It works very fast, but all of them, depending on where in the landfill the material ends up, at least one of them will be available at any given time and that's bacterius. And if it ends up in the top of the pile, you will definitely have oxygen, you will definitely have UV lighting and you might possibly at times and depending on where in the country you're located also have heat. I mean, some of our materials are designed to biodegrade in home compost and that's around 35 centigrade and in that kind of temperature it goes quite fast for the material to biodegrade.
Speaker 4:If we move on to, for example, incineration, which is the second most common way of disposing waste in the US, if you burn our material, that's pretty much something that also is very the material is very well designed for such an end use, insofar that it gives away energy. If you have, for example, a central heating system, it also has the added benefit of the calcium carbonate. If you burn, for example, plastic waste under, let's say, less than perfect circumstances, the waste is wet, so you have an incomplete incineration. What happens then, if you just burn plastic, is that you end up with sulfuric acid and, as you all know, that's not a good thing. So what do you do in order to remedy the existence of sulfuric acid in an incineration process? Versus you add calcium carbonate, when our material has calcium carbonate as one of the integral parts of the material, so it's really well positioned for an incineration process as well. If you recycle material, well, the recycling process. You can recycle biodolomers and the other material, bar the fact that it's not ideally suited for material recycling, given the fact that it's compostable and biodegradable, but you can sort it as any other material. We recently had a big recycling station introduced in Sweden that's one of the most advanced in the world. They use lasers and you can put up those lasers to identify our material. Just as any other plastic.
Speaker 4:There's always the risk of cross contamination between the streams waste streams. So what happens if one biodolomer ends up with a pee material? Will that ruin the pee material? No, it won't.
Speaker 4:There are studies made in Germany that if you had 10% of biodolomer, for example, or a similar material, in a waste stream of PE, it would do nothing to the material as such once reused, as compared to a waste stream of only reused pee. On the other hand, if you have, for example, 2% PET in a pee stream, that would ruin the stream and so for that PET has a different melting temperature. So when the pee is melted the PET is still there unmelted, and once you try to blow that material into well, a film, that would just ruin it, because then you would have big reefs in the material, so that would ruin it. So what I'm saying there is from a recycled perspective. It's not perfect, but it's by no means the worst, at least not when it comes to contamination Composting well, it's a compostable material, so if you have a composting station.
Speaker 4:It works excellent in that we have materials that works for home composting and we have materials that need a little bit higher temperature, so industrial composting. But we are certified for both, for our materials, and they're perfect there. The last option is the most controversial. What happens if it gets out in nature as little Uh-oh.
Speaker 3:It's a lot of science we're covering here. Well, yes and no.
Speaker 4:But if it ends up in nature which we by no means are encouraging people to do, because it still takes a lot of effort to break down it's not an overnight process, but you have all the components for breaking it down and composting it, even in nature. By degrading it in nature, it will take a longer time and there's a transformation period when it becomes smaller and smaller due to the fact that the bacteria is munching and so forth, but there is no end. You won't end up with any microplastics, right, and not the bottom line of it. So we're talking about a couple of years, not a couple of centuries, or even so, it's a good option for that as well. If someone by accident happens to throw it in nature, which is nothing, we don't like that for several different reasons. One is the static one, of course, you don't like to pollute, and the other one is well, you don't want microplastics, even if it's in a transitional period. So you won't end up in microplastics, but during a transitional period, you will have smaller fragments.
Speaker 3:Yes, Right and I think the bottom line is it's biodegradable over time and if you could just quickly I know we're running a little short on time here but can you just tell us a little bit about the carbon impact of using Biodomolar?
Speaker 4:Sure, absolutely. We have tested it for it during an EU-sponsored project a couple of years ago and I know that the conditions applying in Europe is not exactly the same as for the US, but it still gives it some sort of takeaway. We tested it against paper, fossil PE and green PE, and Biodomoc came out very well. We had the lowest carbon emission of all of those.
Speaker 1:That's fantastic.
Speaker 4:It's a very good material from a carbon emission perspective as well.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So I don't know why should the consumer choose biodolomere, which they probably would not be in other words, it's probably not going to be, they're not going to be educated with that word, with that term but why would they choose this instead of other sustainable option green plastics, like you know, biope, or recyclability?
Speaker 4:That's a very good question and I would say the answer is quite simple. I mean, the number one reason is that with biodolomere, we offer a solution that can make a difference immediately, regardless of the end of life disposal available. I mean, as I previously mentioned, you have a very good solution for no matter how it ends up in the end, and we have a lower carbon footprint. Of course, as mentioned, and with a biodolomere composed of material once it has reached the end of life cycle, what you have is CO2, you have water and you have soil. That's not a bad thing and, as mentioned earlier as well, if you incinerate it, it will actually help with the sulfuric acid that is generated when you burn the ordinary plastic.
Speaker 3:Interesting. So I think that biodolomere is kind of on the newer side of development in terms of science and getting out to the marketplace. So maybe it's too early to ask this question, but just want to know if you could tell us is there any kind of new innovations out there that you're currently working on, like what's in the pipeline? Just if you can give us a couple peeks into the future.
Speaker 4:Here, absolutely, we have a number of quite exciting projects in the pipeline. We're currently working on a project where we're trying to find a solution for everyone heard of about the problem with ghost nets and ghost fishing. Yes, how these are just roaming the sea, oceans for years and years, killing fish, and we're actually working on a net material that would A biodegrade and B solve for the problem of ghost fishing. It's for that the density of the net is higher than one, meaning that it will sink to the bottom of the ocean, where the bacteria in the sediments will biodegrade it Right.
Speaker 4:And we also need to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sorry, nils, go ahead Please. I challenged the Gaya team on one more thing. I would love to build a shoe box, because this is quite a large fashion industry that could benefit from a shoe box. We'll see how it goes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean it depends on what kind of shoe. If you, I wouldn't recommend making a shoe box for the Manolo Blanix of the world in Gaya's materials in so far. But you would expect the owner to treasure them for 50 years perhaps, or 30 years, 30 years, right, and our material is not designed for that kind of longitude but for fashion, I mean for pure fashion items, for sneakers that will be slightly less impressive next year. It would be an ideal material for something like that.
Speaker 3:I think that's a great idea and I think a lot of our fashion brands would appreciate that, but we really appreciate having you guys here with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 2:It's great to have you.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, you're really involved in many new innovations and you are on top of this whole sustainability and environmental save the earth kind of thing. But back to the consumer, as we said before, whose vote is the only one that counts at the end of the day. I have been in the past skeptical that they would pay a premium for products that put saving the planet over products that might be more desirable and so forth. But I do believe they're getting there, and especially the younger generations. And, as you pointed out, Patagonia is like the poster child of all of this. But anyway. So thanks so much for giving us and our listeners some hope that there are superior innovations out there being made by you and others. Thanks so much again for being with us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you both. And, by the way, where can our listeners find you to learn more? We have your names and everything the company names in our marketing material, but is there an easy way to find y'all?
Speaker 4:Well, this is the way to find out more about Gaia and Biodolomers to go to our website. That is well, gaiabiomaterialscom Excellent. Well, the spelling is G-A-I-A Biomaterials as the English spellingcom.
Speaker 3:Excellent. Thank you so much and thanks for a great conversation. I know the US is way behind when it comes to recycling and plastic use, so perhaps this will be the catalyst for change. So for our listeners, you can find more of our podcast on Apple, spotify, buzzsprout and, of course, therobinreportcom, and please follow us on social media. Link in with us for the latest thoughts on the industry.
Speaker 2:And I want to thank everybody again as well and, as I mentioned every week, if anybody has an idea or a topic that you would like Shelley and I to cover, just send me an email, robinattherobinreportcom and thanks so much again. Thank you for inviting us.