EP 213: Why Circular Store Design Will Redefine Resilient Retail

Special Guest: Rebekah L. Matheny, NCIDQ, IIDA, Associate Professor | Interior Design | Department of Design, The Ohio State University; Founder & Director | REBEL Sustainable Futures Lab

The retail industry stands at a pivotal crossroads where sustainability, inclusivity, and profitability are converging to create a new model for growth. As consumer preferences evolve and environmental consciousness continues to rise, traditional retail operations are being challenged by a more circular, purpose-driven approach that promises both economic and environmental advantages. Circularity also includes store design with compelling supporting data: Circular retail models can generate up to four times higher profits per item while reducing environmental impact by 80 percent. Join Shelley and Rebekah as they unpack why circular design is not just about sustainability, it’s about creating a resilient business model. The imperative for change is clear: As Gen Zers and Alphas gain more purchasing power, their expectations for sustainable and inclusive retail experiences will reshape the industry. Retailers who pivot now will be better positioned to capture this growing market while contributing to a more resilient retail future.

For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.

Transcript

Transcript by Descript:

We can start to think about ways in which to bring sustainable products and sustainable store experiences to a wider range of people and, you know, just be more welcoming, and inclusive.  Retail Unwrapped is a weekly podcast hosted by Shelley Kohan from The Robin Report. Each episode dives into the latest trends and developments in the retail industry. Join them as they discuss interesting topics and interview industry leaders.  

Hi, everybody, and thanks for joining our weekly podcast. I'm Shelley Kohan, and I'm very excited to welcome Rebekah Matheny, who is Associate Professor for Interior Design Department and Design at The Ohio State University. And you're also the founder of, and director, founder and director of, Rebel, which is a sustainable futures lab, which is actually really exciting.

Your whole world revolves around sustainability practices for creative industries. My whole world is on the business and retail side of the creative industries. So again, It'll be a fun conversation. And this is kind of a second conversation we're having as a follow up to our first conversation, which I got a lot of positive responses from our listeners.

So I am thrilled, Rebekah, to have you back on Retail Unwrapped. And today it's interesting, we have a couple topics that we're going to talk about in relationship to sustainability, circular economy, but we're going to really focus on the gender factor. We're also going to talk a little bit about. This whole idea of the spectrum of sustainability,  which I find very interesting will then go into the circular store.

So around store design and last and probably most importantly is, you know, it's great that we're educating retailers and we're teaching them about all these great things, but. What the heck are they going to do with it? Right? What's the call to action? So Rebekah, welcome. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me back.

I'm really excited to speak with you and your listeners about this topic that I'm very passionate about, which all revolves around sustainability and retail.  Awesome. So we're going to start with the gender factor and what you call echo feminism. And I know a lot of culturally there's a lot of gender  focus in our just in our everyday lives.

There's a lot of legislation that's being rewritten based on gender. A lot of the interactions we have on a daily basis, whether it's, you know, restrooms or whether it's shopping, a lot of companies are doing genderless fashions, but how does this relate to store design?  Yeah, I think last time we talked a lot about,  Demographical preferences.

And so this time there are, you know, these connotations,  ideas that circulate around again, demographics, but more in the gender and gender identity. And, you know, it's, what's interesting is that when it comes to sustainability, eco feminism actually started in the  1970s towards the latter part of the seventies.

So this idea of the intersection of the feminism movement that happened in the seventies. And it's, you know, women's liberation along with, the environmental action. We're colliding together. And that's really interesting to think of, you know, women as a primary, you know, persona or focus as consumers when we're designing our retail store experiences, it usually revolves around or predominantly revolves around the feminine and.

Customer and their experience, they often drive the household expenditures and that has been the case with, the identity of sustainability too, which is really interesting. And so to kind of piggyback off of that, why is femininity or feminine, issues revolving around it? Well, the United Nations talking about legislation, the United Nations states clearly As their sustainability goal, number five, that gender equality is not only a fundamental human right, but a necessity for the foundation of a peaceful, prosperous and sustainable world.

So they are already putting, the equality factor in and marrying it with sustainability. So this has been going on for, you know, a couple of decades. It's been revitalized. I think that's really interesting because the retail world has already focused. Quite a bit on the female customer experience. So I was going to ask you about this idea.

So we've talked a lot about inclusivity. I had Kimberly Minor on a few podcasts ago talking about inclusive work environments, but you know, how does that translate to inclusive environments?  Yeah, I think what's interesting is, you know, there's been a connotation that men have perceived sustainability as a women's job because there's been a lot of marketing and we'll talk more about marketing issues with that spectrum that you mentioned in the intro. 

But men have seen sustainability as a, as a female focused piece because it's been primarily marketed as household or living components.  but as sustainability and younger generations, as we talked about the last time are changing and their perception and their identities are changing with it. 

There is more openness.  Male consumers to be driven towards sustainability and that perception. And that even goes on to this idea of intersectionality. And so there's another term called eco intersectionality. And that's where not only are we intersecting two pieces together, like the feminine movement and sustainability.

But that there are multiple colliding factors, such as you can be, an African American male and focused on sustainability where the three pieces come together. And so there's been a large movement happening to increase intersectionality. So with, with the idea of intersectionality to. We're also recognizing,  societally that there has been a lot of environmental racism that has happened where people of color have been, marginalized and impacted more from the environmental, degradation that's happened in, you know, cities and societies.

So there's been an uptick with, younger generations that are more diverse. And more intersectional in their own, identity to really focus on the diversity of perspective, within their retail environments and how that, that consumer behavior impacts their society.  Rebekah, that's so well put, and it's interesting because we've talked a lot the past couple of years about being more diverse and inclusive in product assortment, but I don't hear a lot of people talking about, you know, the impact of design and the impact of, you know, physical spaces and people being feeling included in physical spaces.

So I think that's excellent research and work that you're doing. And I know our listeners will learn a lot from kind of understanding that.  I think last time we talked, a little bit about what the three pillars of sustainability are and. Society is one of them, not just environmental sustainability, but social sustainability and economic sustainability.

And that goes exactly to this idea of intersectionality, that those three are intersecting. So when we're thinking about the environmental impact of our store design, then we go into thinking about, well, who can access that? And oftentimes, sustainable products are higher priced and less accessible to more people. 

So as we start to really think our systems and the structures and our offerings from the entire system,  we can start to think about ways in which to bring sustainable products and sustainable store experiences to a wider range of people and, you know, just be more welcoming, and inclusive. I love that, Rebekah. 

I want to ask you, so most of our listeners have heard about greenwashing, but what, pinkwashing, rainbowwashing, what's all that about? Yeah, so, you know, for those that aren't aware, greenwashing is essentially a marketing message, which is, you know, sort of the bandaid or the lipstick, metaphor where you're really just saying and marketing that you are sustainable and you're not really backing it up.

And right now there's You know, with technology at your fingertips, there's a lot of information coming at our consumers and they're having to filter through and try to distinguish who's greenwashing them and who's actually being authentic and doing the work. And we're going to talk about that too.

But then that next layer is it's not just impacting sustainability goes to the social factor. And so pinkwashing is where brands are marketing that they're doing,  Pieces that that target that ecofeminism or the feminist consumer. They're being,  inclusive of body types and ethnicities and identities on that goes into the rainbow washing, which is the lgbtq plus community.

And so they're saying that they're being inclusive in these Variety of different areas, but really, they're not doing the work. they're not actually backing it up with action. It's a marketing tactic. it might be, you know, a campaign or a runway.  but when you peel back the skin of that outer layer, there's.

There's not much substance to the inner inner workings. And I think, you know, customers go back to we want authenticity. We want honesty. We want to be able to trust you that you're doing the right thing when I make my purchase to establish brand loyalty. And that goes to the working conditions, in your, your,  Your brand's inner workings, the manufacturers, and the working conditions there are your women who are making my garments being truly, truly, fairly,  true, you know, true and fairly compensated and healthy environments.

So I think there's a desire for all of that. But because of the greenwashing, because of the pinkwashing and the rainbowwashing, there's a lot of noise out there that our consumers are having to sift through. And it's overwhelming and it's hard for them to decide and make the best decision that, that aligns with their own values. 

That's so true. And I think one way that consumers can easily detect one that isn't greenwashing is B Corps. So having, being B Corps certified, and I know a couple of companies and a couple of founders that are B Corps certified, it has a tendency of being the smaller companies that kind of start in that direction.

I think it's more difficult to get B Corps certified for a large company that didn't start that way. Not to say there aren't. Some companies that are big that are out there, but the B Corp is, it's very rigorous and it addresses a lot of what you just talked about. Fair wages, working conditions, supply chain, everything.

So when you talk about, so B Corp's an easy thing for consumers to see is this company B Corp, but what about, you talk about a generous brand. What do you mean by that? And what's, how do you get from companies doing the right thing And consumers knowing about it to B Corp, where it's been certified.  Yeah, there is that spectrum, right?

So the first layer is when you get past the washing is a purpose aligned brand. And this is a brand that is going to have a philanthropic effort where they're, you know, You know, establishing a component. Maybe it's a buy one, give one program, or they're partnering with a certain percentage of the profit, you know, 10 percent of, of the profits goes towards cleaning up the open ocean, something like that.

So that purpose alignment is that first layer. And I think. You know, when it comes to consumers, they want to see that you're making strides, that you're taking steps. So there are brands that have been long established and how do they become more sustainable? And that first step is finding those alignments, finding those opportunities to partner or to partner with, a textile manufacturer that is doing something more sustainable.

Like I think of, you know, Adidas with parlay for the ocean, that partnership.  or, you know, there's been the.  Various brands that have partnered with, Bono's red campaign where they create certain products and the percentage of that. So that would be an alignment where their values align with another value alignment.

And then the next layer that you can go even deeper deeper. So again, taking steps towards moving. You don't have to start off and found yourself as a, as a B Corp right off the bat, but you could move towards that direction. And another would be a purpose driven brand. And this is, taking that, you know, buy one, give one idea even further and saying that we are really sort of established internally with these larger Ethical purpose mission at our heart.

And so we're doing more for that. I think of Warby Parker is a great one. So not only are they offering eyeglasses at, or a percentage of profits, but they're actually going into communities that need, eye exams and they're providing additional services beyond just the donation factor. And then generous brand, as you mentioned, would be that next layer before you go to the B Corp.

And this is where, you know, they're actually demonstrating and taking action. You know, they're changing systems. They're positively impacting society and the environment. They're really putting boots on the ground. They're taking customers even with them.  I think of REI doing this and other brands that are doing, you know, sort of,  Philanthropic trips to locations where they're bringing consumers along with them to engage in these communities and you literally put their boots on the ground, which is really great.

And another company that I think of that's a good example of that is, a brand feed and they, they're, they started with the mission and then they developed the product and services to support the mission. And they knew that they wanted to feed. You know, school meals and then they said, okay, well, what products can we create?

Well, if food is a perishable item, then maybe what we're going to do is create other products that one might be a tote bag, a grocery bag that you reuse when you're buying your own food. Maybe we'll make candles, we'll have a coffee shop, you know? So I think of, in Williamsburg in Brooklyn, they've got, a feed shop there with the coffee shop.

And I think that's a great way to bring that mission beyond the website or the digital touch point. Into the physical so that you can really see that tangible opportunity, you know, even their welcome at I'm thinking of the store and you know, you walk in with this welcome and it says we can do a world of good and so you know, immediately you're you're here with a purpose with a mission and I think then that leads us into the B Corp and.

It is like you said, it is really hard to get B Quark statics. There are very few brands out there, particularly large brands.  a couple that come to mind is actually Athleta. And, you know, I, I mentioned gap and the alignment with, product red, and this is where they said, okay, we're going to create a new brand. 

We're going to create a, athleisure brand and we're going to start from the ground up and make it recorp and follow that rigor. But when it comes to the brand, you know, the brand experience in store,  there's a sign here or there. You have to go back to, you know, the dressing room to see some of the information.

So it's still not out in front. And, you know, I think customers to get to that Pass the greenwashing to really believe it brands can really pull that to the forefront and really be proud about their actions that are taking to be in this elite group of people or corporation,  that are taking that stand.

So, you know, it goes to the call to action a little bit of saying  be active about it, be proud about it, put it out in front, don't bury it on the website and, take it to the forefront. And I think a brand that's Doing that.  I love to put out some examples for people to reference. There aren't many stores in the United States, yet, but there's a brand called farm Rio, you're lucky.

Cause you're in New York and you've got, the Soho shop, which is great. But they've done quite a few fun,  pop ups and they, they're B Corp and they, they talk about it as well. And they're another brand that also addresses the gender fluidity and gender identity. So they're, you know, going into stores and they're dressing,  sort of agendered clothing and putting on their male models and saying anyone and everyone is welcome here, which is pretty interesting.

That goes back,  to sort of, you know, connect to the very first topic of the gender factor.  I love that. I'm gonna throw one more brand out there. So, the CEO and founder of Area, area, New York is the first vegan leather luxury shoe brand that's B Corp certified. And I have to tell you, I love it. Those shoes are unbelievable.

I'm gonna connect you with her 'cause she's amazing.  that's awesome. The other thing I love about how you kind of describe this is you can't go from zero to B Corp overnight. It just doesn't happen. So I like this idea of, you know what, do small steps as you go. And eventually you can make broader impact.

That's right. I'm also going to weigh in here. I'm going to.  Let all of our listeners know why this is important and something that you and I is very close to our heart is in school, in colleges today, and you mentioned the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. Those students have been learning those goals from semester one, and I know at Fashion Institute of Technology, I know in other colleges, they're doing the same thing.

So, When I, when I say that these students, by the time they graduate, there's two things that impact retailers. One is these students want to work for companies that are the generous brand or B Corps. And the other thing is, so they're looking to work for those companies. And by the way, these, students that are currently in college and even the gen alphas, they start college in two years.

When they get out, there are big buying power and guess what they're going to be looking for. They're going to be looking for brands that kind of follow this. So I think it's super important to kind of understand the future of Of where our, you know, industry is going in terms of circularity and these important things.

So I knew you're spot on, you know, with both of us being in the academic sector, we're able to see those generational values firsthand. And, you know, it's interesting is when they do get out into the job. And if you are greenwashing or pinkwashing or rainbow washing. They're going to notice it right away if they're working at your company, and they're going to report out.

I mean, social media is a communication tool, and so that changes perceptions, and, you know, you don't want to be on the,  the cancel list, if you will, from that, right? So, That's so true. And it is, it's interesting, you know, when we talk about the UN sustainability goals, I was just at a material manufacturer,  at their, facility a few weeks ago and their sustainability presentation walked through six, not just, you know, not just the one with The or or number 12, which sustainability goal 12 is about consumption and production aspects, which addresses the circularity piece.

But they had six different U. N. Sustainability goals that their corporation strives to,  adhere to. So you're exactly right. It's very broad and it's becoming integrated into more companies,  across the spectrum.  Yeah. All right. So let's talk about the circular store. Tell us a little bit about what does a circular design look like? 

Yeah, well, it does kind of go back to what we were saying with the UN.  you know, they, they say even in one of their resolutions that the circular economy is one of the current sustainable economic models for the world in which products and materials are designed in such a way that they can be reused, remanufactured, Recycled or recovered, and that means that they need to be maintained in the economy for as long as possible.

So we're used to that linear model. You purchase something, you use it. You trash it, right? So that's the linear model. The circular model is where that goes on and on and it comes back. So, you know, the circular economy is aimed at eliminating the waste stream and,  talking about a continual use and repurpose of our resources.

And what's really interesting is. when that translates into circular retail, another fun term. So it's not just the circular economy, but the circular retail. And so circular economy and another one that's parallel is the shared economy. So circular is where you own a own something.  but then the shared is where, you know, you have the shared ride, the shared housing with Airbnb,  but shared products.

It might be a toy library where you're renting out a toy. I mean, if we go back, really. The shared economy is the library,  that we've had around for centuries, right? So that's really a part of that shared economy,  where you're borrowing something and you don't own it, possess it. But if you are talking about that circular model,  there's circular retail design and that's where the business model, going back to our generous and our variety of ones we talked about, the business model. 

Is set up so that the store and the retail experience is designed and the programming of the spaces,  allows for the product to have multiple consumers using that product up to, you know, potentially six. That's what they're sort of modeling after that six customers through that one brand retail space.

Can you use that? So it's the idea of repurposing potentially worn apparel. We see this with, you know, Patagonia's and some of the F outdoor wear brands and more and more happening.  you know, I think last time I maybe even talked about,  the God, you know, sort of the Godmother of slow fashion being,  Eileen Fisher.

So she has her, her repurpose. store, her reworn store. And so that's really the idea is that you're taking back the product. And what's interesting is that, you know, when it comes to retailers, the bottom line still has to be the economy of it, right? You have to, there has to be a profit. But what's interesting is the idea of repurposing worn apparel means that the profit of that single item is actually four times higher. 

Four times higher than a linear model,  but yet the environmental impact is five times less than if the linear model. So this idea of circularity is both economically viable for companies, for brands, and the store experience is worthwhile,  because you're doing good while also sustaining your own company.

Which is pretty fascinating.  Yeah, no, that's great. And I'm going to mention something. I know we talked about this in depth in our last podcast, but I'm going to mention it because I believe it is worth repeating. We talked about the consumer. The consumer understands sustainability. But I believe there's a learning curve on the circular economy.

And I think what retailers and brands need to understand the learning curve is getting a lot smaller. You know, customers are beginning to understand circular economy and circular design and circular retail more and more. So I think that consumers are catching up now. They are, and even younger consumers are going to other other ways of doing it rather than going to a traditional retailer.

They're going to secondhand shops. They're going to thrift shops, you know, and part of it is because they are economically constrained, right? They have limited resources so that they can.  have more expansion to their wardrobe or to their product sourcing. And they also know that they can return it to that place and someone else can get a life of it.

So instead of, you know, buying the super, super fast fashion brands out there and the product not being worthy. Now, the, the tricky thing is when some of that product that's not,  built for longevity ends up in those thrift stores. And I think that's where we see. You know, some innovation happening in the retail space.

For example, Madewell did, a partnership with ThredUP and ThredUP is a, you know, collection of repurposed previously worn items, but through that partnership, ThredUP was able to filter out the Madewell product. So that way it feeds it into, and so it becomes a curated thrift experience. So if you know that your Madewell jeans fit you and be.

You know exactly the size and the cut that you want, or maybe they stopped making your favorite boot cut jeans. I'm a Gen Xer, so I love my boot cuts.  so it's like, you know, you go to your favorite jeans and you're able to find that curated collection. You don't have to sift through like you would a traditional boot cut jeans.

Thrift shop and you're able to afford it. And, you know, it's, it's curated just like any other retail experience is,  it's organized. It's well branded and it just allows you to have access to that without some of the, you know, chaos. Now, sometimes you like the chaos and there's a place for the traditional thrift shop too, but I think it's interesting that brands are also getting creative.

And again, going back to collaboration, you know, teamwork makes the dream work. So I think when it comes to sustainability. All hands on deck.  That's excellent. Okay. So now we've now hopefully enlightened some of our listeners in terms of this topic. What's the call to action? What, what are the things that you can tell retailers or brands to do today in their store designs? 

Well, I think starting with going back to our first topic, you know, when we think about the space,  In the retail store experience, we need to allow for self expression and the freedom to explore one's identity without having societal projection. So when we go back to that gender factor and the intersectionality, we shouldn't be going into our spaces saying, well, this is a garment that's primarily geared towards X, Y, and Z.

Because In reality,  A, B, C, G, Z, F, A, you know, like everybody should be able to be able to explore their own identity within the space. So that, that starts to go down to the idea of the traditional store. We typically lay out a store that sells male and female product in a very binary way. There's either Mail mail product in the back or on the left hand side and women on the right or in the front,  you know, there's the cosmetic stores and things of that nature where it's very female driven, but more and more men are exploring their expression, whether it's through nail polish or, you know,  Makeup, you know, whatever it may be, hair color.

So thinking about that inclusive and intersectional identity within the space. so starting to eliminate that, that binary choice within our store layouts and, the traditional, projection of imagery and being more inviting to that,  but I think to get there, the first thing people need to do is diversify the team.

It starts at the table. Right. And we say this in our house, it starts at the dining room table, right? Conversation. It's the conversation starter. So.  The sustainability director of your corporation shouldn't be sitting off just dealing with, you know, their fashion line and the sustainability of the product life cycle.

They need to be at the table for sustainability in the store. Those silos need to be broke down. The people sitting at the table. Need to have diversity in intersectionality of representation, because everyone's different lived experiences come in and we can begin to incorporate those views. And, you know, we talk a lot about the customer journey.

And so if we're talking about the customer journey, then we need to have a variety of journeys. In the conversation, and that allows us to begin to go to accessibility. Where can we meet customers where they are? How do we meet customers with where they are? How do we get into communities? How do we broaden our reach and, expand the story and, and the impact, the purpose of the brands. 

So I'm going to say the one big takeaway is for retailers and brands to go back to the corporate office, go to the design team and see who's sitting at the table. Is it diverse enough? Right? Do you have enough voices? And is someone from sustainability on that, you know, in part of that process? Right? And I think that starts with, that leads to listening and it doesn't necessarily even be that the design team has to be, you know, representational of everybody, but your corporation has people within its system at all different levels, bring them in, you know, that's where we can utilize some of our design research methods of co designing and participatory design.

So that way the table's diverse, we're pulling from a lot of different resources, we're learning from a lot and we're listening, we're listening.  Excellent. I got to leave on that note. That is an awesome, ending to our podcast. So Rebekah, it's always a pleasure having you so much. And thank you for everyone listening to us. 

I'm sure we'll have you back. Cause, you have a lot to teach us. I also want to thank our listeners. And if you have any feedback about the therobinreport.com under contact us, leave us a message. We'd love to hear from you. Thank you so much. And Rebekah, thank you.  Thank you for listening to Retail Unwrapped.

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