EP 223: Trade Talks: NRF’s Big Show (Part 2 of 2)

Guests:
Dominick Miserandino, CEO Retailwire
Beverley Kobe, Chief Executive Officer at Goodwill Industries Ontario Great Lakes
Sulabh Jain, Chief Analytics Officer Impact Analytics

The future of retail is undergoing a transformation and artificial intelligence is emerging as a powerful partner for humans in the process. Join Shelley with three industry leaders: Dominick Miserandino, CEO of Retailwire; Sulabh Jain Chief Analytics Officer of Impact Analytics; and Beverley Kobe Chief Executive Officer at Goodwill Industries Ontario Great Lakes, as they tackle some of the most complex aspects of the AI evolution that are reshaping traditional retail value propositions. Dominick explores the mindset around how AI is leveraging retail-tech not as a job eliminator, but as an extension of human capabilities -- AI with a humanistic approach. He also discusses the dramatic shifts in consumer behavior defined by immediate gratification and convenience. Bev shares how sustainability initiatives are empowered by insightful analytics that optimize processing 6 billion pounds of goods flowing through innovative reuse and recycling channels annually. Sulabh reveals how forward-thinking retailers are leveraging AI-powered decision systems to remodel traditional pricing and inventory strategies into sophisticated, data-driven operations. And the experts weigh in on the impact of potential global trade policies and tariffs in 2025. The convergence of AI, sustainability, and adaptive pricing strategies represent a fundamental shift in retail operations, amplifying the power of resilience in an increasingly interconnected marketplace. Listen and learn from our experienced experts.

For more strategic insights and compelling content, visit TheRobinReport.com, where you can read, watch, and listen to content from Robin Lewis and other retail industry experts, and be sure to follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.

Transcript

Transcript by Descript:

 We're here at NRF, and NRF to me is the great encyclopedia with everyone there, and you could pull out a chapter M or L or whatever letter in the alphabet,  and your job as a retailer is figuring out through all this noise.  What tools are needed to grow this business? 

Retail Unwrapped is a weekly podcast hosted by Shelley Cohan from The Robin Report. Each episode dives into the latest trends and developments in the retail industry. Join them as they discuss interesting topics and interview industry leaders, keeping you in the loop with everything retail.  Hi, this is Shelley Cohan from Retail Unwrapped.

We took our podcast on the road to the NRF show. And today I have a fabulous guest. Dominic Mezzarindino, and I, I always can never get your last names as smooth as you say it. So Dominic, welcome. Thank you. Dominic Mezzarindino, CEO of retailwire. com.  That's great. So I know you've been at the show, you've been all over the show floor.

I've been seeing you out there. So tell us, what are you seeing at the show and what should retailers be thinking about? I feel like this year's show is the subject would be, oh, wow, that's what you actually do with AI. Like, in the past, it was just, you know, a cursory, but now we're getting it.  I tell people, it's almost like when Alexa came out, hope I didn't set off my Alexa, and everyone started testing it saying, hey,  A L E X I, what is the weather in Timbuktu?

And now we're getting actual practical use cases for AI. It's amazing.  Yeah, I saw the same thing. I think last year people just slapped AI on the booth front and you were walking through saying, all right, what do you do? So that's great. So what should retailers be thinking about in terms of AI? Like, I'm going to ask you this quick off the cuff, off the top of your head.

What are the three most relevant AI things that you saw at the NRF show for 2025? Oh, and every lecture I speak about is about being more human. And I think AI has to be that extension of the human. And if it's not doing so, it is  concerning. So one of the, and not only is it concerning, the AI never really replaces correctly.

It,  it's not, you never want to have like dear AI, write a letter to all my customers or for them to sell. It goes downhill. But I saw some tech, which was really. an extension of the human. I saw one I loved, which was like, uh, it would use a camera and simply survey the people anonymously in your store by demographic, by reading their face, but it It was interesting, just like, wow, you have a count of who's in the store.

I guess you could hire someone to sit there with a clipboard  or have the AI count number of people, what aisles, where they're walking, et cetera. So, but there's a lot of that where it's more that natural extension of the person at that point.  That's really interesting. I think I find it very fascinating that I asked you for the most relevant AI.

And the first thing you said was human. So it's AI with a humanistic touch. And I, I saw that too. So I think you're spot on with that. Absolutely. Uh, I think it's concerning because we looked at AI initially as  we're going to replace everyone's jobs.  And I think it can't be that. Um, you know, I'm also on the Retail AI Council and we discuss AI.

And I feel like, no, it's not a replacement. Stop thinking of it as a replacement. Think of it purely as this tool that needs to be used correctly.  Yeah, and I think the use cases are great. So I'm going to switch topics on you. Um, let's talk Let's talk about tariffs. So I know that you're always being interviewed on the news.

You're always on tv Always on the news always giving opinions about what's happening in our retail environment So I have to ask about tariffs because the tariffs are looming They may be coming very quickly with the new administration that starts very shortly So tell me a little bit about your view on tariff and how, how is that going to impact the retailers and the consumers?

Um, I think every retailer should be thinking to themselves.  Mixed with, oh gosh. It's the great unknown. The challenge on anything from a macroeconomic level is one thing affects the other.  If you implement tariffs, it will not only A, have a retaliatory action,  but B, it goes down the line. Um, the AirPods that I'm holding in my hands,  Have to have material from more than 1 location.

I think the only, uh. Retail I could even think of that is singular to a geographic location, not affected by tariffs and or labor would be like  woodworkers in Amish country where they. Harvest the wood themselves and carve it themselves in their backyard.  Unless you have a singular vision than that, I think you do have that great unknown,  and you're always struggling to determine where that all goes. 

Yeah, I think I think it's a it's an interesting topic and you know, it's a lot of been has a lot has been said about the tariffs and how the American people, the people that put the Trump administration in office that there's a missing link there where I don't know if they're understanding that, yeah, let's stick it to everybody else.

Let's add those tariffs. I'm not sure if they're connecting the dot that that actually means rising prices for those same Americans that put the administration in office. Well, there's a common element. It's I don't even want to even beyond the singularity with every business. I mean, I've worked on quite a few turnarounds.

Thankfully,  it's the interconnectedness. It's that when working online, I've had very often people isolate the business. As if a social media strategy is isolated from how good your website performs, which is isolated from.  No, we've not only have technology that is rather You  Interconnected, but we have an economy that is rather interconnected.

And I think even the smartest guys in the world,  there's a struggle in determining where is that line and how does this one affect the other? It's something I am constantly struggling with myself. Um, when I'm.  Doing any board work when I'm talking to anyone outside retail wire, when they're asking for their opinions and advice, I'm always saying to myself,  how does this problem affect that problem? 

And I don't,  I don't, you're, you're doing your best calculations, you're assuming risk and everyone in leadership, I think that's what you have to do. But it's not isolated. And the more this world has grown, we have become so interdependent across,  across the world. Okay.  It is, it's very independent. It's very complex.

It's not a simple issue. It's not a, you know, one plus one thing. It's a one plus three equals, you know, 600,000. Right. It is so connect. I usually, it's so complex. I say it's like A effects B affects C accepts, and you're trying to figure out what Z is going to be from that dominoes Exactly. Down the line, you know, and it's a lot of dominoes.

Yeah.  Yeah. So tell me about the economy. I know you talk a lot about the economy. I'm specifically interested in the US economy. What are you seeing for 2025? Um, as far as the U. S. economy and what, what should retailers be thinking about?  I mean, it's truly I think retailers need to figure out how to use all these levers, how to figure out  what affects what and when and where.

Um,  it's.  You know, we, we're here at NRF and NRF to me is the great encyclopedia with everyone there, and you could pull out of chapter M or L or whatever letter, the alphabet,  and your job as a retailer is figuring out through all this noise,  what tools are needed to grow this business. 

I see that, uh, you know, there was a lot about, Oh, consumers are pulling back and seamless and pulling back spending consumers are pulling back spending, but I'm just not seeing it in the numbers. You know, I'm saying that consumers are spending. I do agree. I think we did have a cultural shift that I think we still don't yet.

We still yet to understand, which is post COVID world. We are used to,  um, spending for happiness when it used to be saving for longterm. Now you might say, I've seen the dark days of being in the house and I just want to order XYZ. Um, there's also an immediacy, you know, the, the rise of DoorDash and Instacart and, um, all of those  is so revealing.

Um,  and it's just, I think really affected the consumer mindset. I want it now. It has been a change from, I better see it when I could buy it. Or I better prepare for that dark day and then maybe buy it.  It's so interesting the dichotomy of you know, looking at you know We're all about consumers now about value value value and value doesn't mean cheap prices value means value, right?

Here's what I want to spend for this. So i'll tell you a quick fun story. So my son Uh earlier in the year. My son is ordering something from starbucks through door dash And I'm, I'm saying to him now, buddy, does that make sense? You're ordering, uh, you know, a latte Frappuccino, whatever from DoorDash that's now going to cost you instead of costing 8, it's going to cost you 12, does that make sense?

No, but they can get it to me, mom. And I can't go out and get it now. So I, and that's kind of like one little example, but. You know, I agree with that example. That is the consumer shift where I think post COVID there's that mentality of, Oh, no, who knows when the world could end.  And now,  now it's a variant to something different. 

Awesome. Well, I appreciate your time. Any closing thoughts that you have that you'd like to say to our listeners? No, it's been a wonderful time, uh, spending time with you at NREF. Um, I invite any listeners to connect on LinkedIn and most importantly, Shelley, you're amazing.  Oh, thank you. And you have like a lot of LinkedIn followers.

So if anyone wants to know anyone to know anyone who knows anyone, that's you, Dominic, you're the man. Well, thank you so much.  I'm very excited. I'm here with Bev Cobey.  And she is CEO and President of Goodwill Ontario Great Lakes. So, Bev, first, welcome. Thank you, Shelley. And second, can you, what is Goodwill Ontario Great Lakes in Canada?

Sure. Tell us about that. So, Goodwill, my Goodwill, is a 70 million Goodwill in the province of Ontario. We're one of five Goodwills in Canada. One of 154 Goodwills across North America. And we're a non profit social enterprise. Um, all of us function independently, but collectively we have a vision of creating jobs primarily for people that most need the work, whether that's women, marginalized communities, and then environmental stewardship.

And so My Goodwill, as I said, is one of many, um, but as a network, we take in donated goods and we extend the life of those goods, diverting them from landfill. So last year, we took in almost 6 billion pounds of goods in North America. Isn't that incredible? And 45 percent of those were resold, kept in use longer.

And another 30 percent recycled. So diverting almost 75 percent of those goods from the landfill. Which is truly incredible. And there's more to be done. That's amazing work. So tell me a little bit about how the donations work and how the network works. Right. So every Goodwill um, follows standards. And as a donor, if you've ever donated, you drive up, you are greeted within less than 10 seconds.

And your donation is immediately moved into a river system. Where it is processed and put out on the floor. providing accessible goods to our community members. And then anything that doesn't sell at the store level, some Goodwills have an outlet or a pound shop which gives those goods one more chance before being diverted into recycling streams. 

It's exciting. Yeah, and I think what's newer, um, is that there's some of us Goodwills now moving into the circular economy. And now finding innovative partnerships where we're actually taking those products that aren't for resale, they're not recycled, and they're actually being re manufactured into new products, new markets. 

That's amazing, and I'm going to make your day right now. So my son, I have two sons, uh, my younger son who's 17. Yes. His favorite place to go is thrifting at Goodwill. I love that. Oh, yeah. I've given all my friends a whole group of them a go. Amazing. It's a big, the thrift industry is a multi billion dollar industry.

And it's fun. It is fun. Finding that treasure. And I think the biggest challenge that retailers have, so retailers that aren't doing the actual selling of the donating goods. So. Retailers, I think they're challenged because it seems so complex and there's a lot of things that they have to think about in terms of getting to that circular, circularity.

So how can, how can retailers help in this model? Well I think together, we can come together and build this circular ecosystem, right? Create these solutions where we're working together and we're strengthening our impact. So, Goodwill has the infrastructure. To be that collector of those goods, whether it's returns on behalf of the retailer, whether it is, um, end of life, dead stock that they don't want to be throwing into the landfill.

And so we have the infrastructure to collect those goods. We have the technology to do advanced sorting of those goods. And then we can, if they can be resold, we resell them. It's always reuse is our first priority. And then recycling streams. Um, again, diverting those from landfill. If they can't be resold.

So I work with a national retailer that, Their returns can't be resold, so we de manufacture them. We have a B2B platform. We're de manufacturing, and the components then get streamed into various recycling solutions.  So like a commodity that might not be able to be resold, just to explain to our listeners, like lingerie, for example, or intimate apparel, there's laws that govern the fact that they can't be resold.

Is that what you mean by that? Yes, and Some manufacturers mandate they don't want their product sold, let's say, in a thrift store, as an example. If it's not sold at the retailer's level, then it doesn't get sold. Um, what's extremely exciting is that we're finding now circular solutions, true closed loop solutions, where products are actually being repurposed  into brand new material.

And one example would be, um, we have, uh, A manufacturer and retailer of acrylic tub surrounds.  And there's an incredible amount of waste that's generated during that process. And that waste, that acrylic waste, is all going to the landfill. They are now  giving that waste to Goodwill. We shred this acrylic.

It then gets ground into a product that they're using in the manufacturing of their new tub surrounds. That's just one example. And then textiles. So in North America, this is another statistic that's actually, it doesn't make you feel very good. But we're generating about 17 million tons of textile waste every year.

And it's, most of it's going to the landfill. So again, coming together with the industry to address this solution, come up with a solution, address a problem that is fairly significant. Yeah. And um, we can do that. There's new technologies that are, through chemical recycling, mechanical recycling, they're breaking these fibers down.

creating virgin fiber and manufacturing for industry. So it's incredibly exciting. It's absolutely a collaborative effort. And I think the other area that retailers really need to start thinking about now is legislation. So I know California always more stringent in terms of any type of legislation, but they're already starting it.

I don't know much about Canada's legislation, but can you talk to us a little bit about what's coming down the pike in terms of legislation and this 

Yes. Yes. There's going to be accountability measures that are introduced, as there should be. We are over producing, over consuming, and so EPR, or extended producer, um, responsibility legislation, that is what is coming down the pipeline, as you said. And so, again, Goodwill's value proposition is we have the ability to track the data.

We have rich data. And so, if a brand works with us, we can input the data. their data into our POS system and track those items through their entire pathway and process. So that a brand and a retailer can then go back and report to their stakeholders, to the government. about their sustainability metrics, so we can assist the industry in achieving their sustainability goals.

That's amazing. So I remember at Goodwill back in the day, you know, 30 years ago, you kind of dropped off a box and, I don't know, it probably wasn't handwritten, but, and now you have all these sophisticated systems that do this, uh, tracking, and that's amazing. Well, technology's a big focus at this NRF conference, as it should be, and so the thrift industry is booming, and we also need to advance along with the technologies and what become more sophisticated, increase our efficiencies and optimize our processes as well.

And we're doing that. That's fantastic. Tell me, what are you seeing at the NRF show? Any, any interesting things or any sessions you've gone to that have been particularly motivating? Yeah, there's obviously there is a lot about AI which again, we all are keeping our eyes on and I'm excited about that There's gonna be some great games made  For me, what's most exciting is hearing about the people leadership.

So we're all leading these big businesses and There seems to be this priority and no one has lost sight of the importance of The people that make it happen, and so supporting your people, advancing your people, um, Goodwill in particular, like I said, we hire people that are from marginalized communities, and we wrap around them, you know, and you help them advance along their career pathway.

I've heard that as a theme throughout, and I, I, that really resonates with me. That's very motivational. Right? I love that. Yeah. Rising People Up, the Anna Rampart Foundation, by the way, there's a lot of work with students and student programs and trying to give people that are already in different industries, you know, the up skills that they need to be more successful. 

Yes, I was at the foundation event last night and that was truly inspirational. I didn't realize the scholarship and the work that they do to truly help people along their pathway, so it was amazing.  Anything else you'd like to add or anything you'd like for our retailers to be thinking about in terms of this kind of recycling? 

I think my message is don't try to do it on your own because it is overwhelming. And I think that these circular solutions really should be an ecosystem, right? A community, regional, national approach. So reach out to your local Goodwill as an example and um, And just trust that you don't have to create it all.

You don't have to create the infrastructure. It may already be there. Yeah, that's a really good point. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. for spending time with me. I appreciate it. Thanks, Shelley. Thank you.  I have Sue Lab Jane, who is the chief, I believe, technically, technical officer at Impact Analytics.

Did I get the analytics officer right? Chief analytics officer, correct? Analytics officer, right? So congratulations on being in such a prominent role for the industry. I appreciate all the work that you're doing on the analytics side. So, um, welcome.  Thank you, Shelly. Thank you for your time as well. Uh, we are really, really looking forward to the conversation. 

Good. So for our listeners, if we could, can you just tell us a little bit about impact analytics? I'm not sure all of our listeners know about what the great work that you're doing in the industry.  Absolutely. So Impact Analytics, uh, is a retail focused, I want to call AI decision systems company. So we are helping a lot of retailers use their data along with publicly available data to make better decisions.

And these are using state of the art machine learning AI algorithms to help retailers make better forecasts. And optimization on their decisions. So examples being how to price an item, when to promote, how much inventory to carry in different stores, how to think about assortment and localized assortment across the U.

S. and for some of our clients, even globally. So it's really, um, built out for enabling better science. In this art driven, uh, retail and really, you know, uh, push that boundary forward and forward.  That's great. And I, if I, if I know the technology and I actually met you at the NRF, I think two years ago, I visited your booth last year and this year as well, you have a great team.

But one of the things I really like about your technology impact analytics is that there's a human side of it, a human component of it, meaning that you allow some type of a human decision making in that. You know, AI, can you just speak to that for one second?  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think, you know, the core philosophy around a lot of our solutions is the art and science need to exist together.

And then if you extend that, it's basically saying, Hey, I can give you. a great working draft or it can be, you know, good on most cases, but we are also able to tell where are the cases with lower confidence and then let the user make adjustments. So there is a recommendation from the machine, but then the user can certainly bring in their experience, bring in, you know, their understanding about.

Their business, and then adjust some of the decisions as well. The beauty in all of this is at the end of the day, the user is likely spending much less time, um, in doing manual tasks, like uploading Excel sheets or gathering data and all of that, but really spending time where it matters, which is thinking about the strategy and how it relates to the decision that they're making on that day in that week. 

Yeah, yeah, that's it's really interesting. And, you know, retailers are using Excel sheets. I don't know. That's kind of like, there's so much out there. You could be spending your time on as opposed to Excel sheets, but we're kind of like, we feel like we're just bonded to those Excel sheets and we don't want to let go of them.

But I have a question for you. So I know that you guys do a lot around pricing. That's kind of a sweet spot for you. I know you do a lot of things, but pricing is one. So I have to ask you the hard question. So we have some looming tariffs that are out there. That might be hitting retailers. So, you know, what, how should retailers be thinking about pricing today? 

Yeah, no, I think you put the right pulse in there, right? Everyone here at NRF, obviously a lot of our clients who've come to the booth talked about tariffs and how it could affect their business. And I think it goes back to probably thinking about the basics a little differently, which is, Hey, You should be able to have your historical data govern how your product elasticities are.

You should probably have a sense of being able to track what your competition is pricing and promoting like, and then obviously your backend, which is your vendors and putting all of that together is How you could think about either consolidating your vendor or, you know, in, in some cases passing on the cost increase to the consumer, in some cases, absorbing that cost as well.

So, you know, with a lot of the AI models that we have in place, we are actually already helping a couple of retailers.  Think through these decisions by saying, Hey, which items you should potentially think about absorbing that cost increase or the tariff increase. And in some cases, you know, your ability to go back to your vendor and say, guess what, you know, this is where we want you to bring your cost down or your prices down.

And in some cases also saying, you know, we'll just pass on the cost to the consumer because these products are inelastic and that that's how the market is right now.  Yeah. So what you just described is very complicated. It's not, it's not a one size fits all for everybody. Right.  It could be different strategies within the same business at different times of the year.

Some products are elastic come a fall season versus some products are the same product could be an elastic, let's say, you know, during the late months of winter or early spring. So it really is a season.  Season decision. It's also a product by product decision and hence anything which can do those computations for you at scale is, is super important as well.

So that's what we bring in along with, you know, a good answer to say how you can overall do good as a business. Some categories may not as much continue the trend from last few years, but then you give up in some categories and you gain much more in the others.  Yeah, no, that's great. And I hear you had a great session with Paxon, Victoria's Secret, and Cignet.

And what I love about your session is, wow, could you have picked more different retailers? That's so impressive. So tell us a little bit about the session and kind of maybe the key takeaways for those that couldn't attend.  Yeah, absolutely. I think, uh, you know,  uh, rightly said, these were very senior folks from all of those three clients.

So certainly everyone of us at impact is also really humbled by, you know, how things have worked over the last few years. But I think a couple of common themes that you would see and notice in those conversations was. All of the leaders that we spoke with certainly emphasize the importance of AI and tools like ours being a part of their broader innovation roadmap.

So, you know, I think, um, that that's certainly also the theme that you are seeing at NRF in general, but, uh, you know, much more emphasized by the three leaders that we've talked with. The other thing, um, that again, you know,  Uh, from them was how they went about selecting the right partner after a very involved RFP process, selection process, talking to a lot of our engineers, a lot of our leadership as well.

It's obviously there is the part of demo and, and, you know, your requirements, but also. The emphasis on which partner is going to get you the right speed of innovation and then continue to stay ahead of the curve. I think, you know, those were broadly, I think the, the points that was emphasized upon. 

That's great. Well, congratulations on getting, uh, those brands, because I have to tell you, I've been in RFPs with a couple of those brands and, uh, it's rigorous. And for you guys to kind of come out as the chosen solution for what they're doing is very impressive.  So,  yeah, so my, my last question is, is more about just pricing.

I mean, how has pricing changed over time and also what are you seeing for the future in terms of pricing or, you know, any type of analytics? I know you do a lot with inventory, uh, analytics as well in the inventory optimization, right?  Correct. Uh, so, you know, it's sort of funny in the sense that pricing is probably that one lever, which is much more shorter term to gain any outcome and results.

And hence it always ends up being a little reactionary to what's happening in the world, right? So if you dial back early 2020 COVID had just started hitting, no one was probably thinking, you know, Pricing will be a way to deal with that situation. And then five months later when you know the checks were going out and things were relatively coming back to normal, everyone found that time was right to sort of keep up the pricing and, you know, not do as much discounts and you know, really focus on the margins.

Right. So it was somewhat a reaction, but on the other side of things. And then you would see, you know, coming back, let's say the later half of 20, 22, early 23.  And so on, obviously, you know, there was this sentiment around economy being tight and supply chain constraints coming in and whatnot. And, and, you know, obviously stock markets reacting that they, the way they were inflation was high.

And that's where I think everyone was looking at, how could you squeeze in pockets to protect your margin and not just give away discounts and markdowns and whatnot. Right. So I think depending on how some of that consumer sentiment and external economic indicators are. The reaction is almost immediate in terms of pricing.

And, you know, even now at NRF, we're looking at people talking about tariffs and, you know, which countries and how it could affect now you cannot. And then you can change your sourcing partner overnight, but you could certainly change your pricing overnight. Right. And that's where most of the  leadership's minds at, which is, you know, how do we react in case there is a scenario of tariffs hitting our part of assortment.

And you know, there is a picture and a message for the consumers, but then. There's also a picture and a message for the board and the shareholders and whoever else, right? So It's a fine balance. I think what we'll see going forward is probably a little more experimentation from a lot of retailers  You know of how they are tackling the tariffs.

Um, I hope A lot more adoption of data driven tools, uh, specially impact analytics tools as well to help them guide through some of those turbulences and, and for all, we know, you know, that may be the new normal and, and, you know, consumers react well to a lot of those changes and. There may be a different surprise for us by the end of the year and then another reaction in terms of pricing strategies.

So I've seen this over the last few years. It's always, you know, some external event sort of governing how the next few months of pricing and strategy around it is going to be like.  Yeah, well, that's so interesting. I never really thought about that, but you're right. It's an external lever that we don't have control of at all.

We are just victims of what's happening externally, and we can only control how we respond or react to it.  Thank you so much for your time. And I really appreciate you hopping on the podcast with me and I look forward to seeing you guys again. Absolutely. Have a good rest of the NRF.  Thank you for listening to Retail Unwrapped.

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